Learizing Baseline 5MW Wind Turbine with FAST

Provide feedback, request enhancements, and get help with wind-turbine computer-aided engineering tools.

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Ali.Elyaakoubi
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Re: Learizing Baseline 5MW Wind Turbine with FAST

Postby Ali.Elyaakoubi » Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:25 am

Hello Jonson
A comment from your post said:

The standalone AeroDyn driver input file can be set up to run multiple cases for different wind speeds (WndSpeed), rotor speeds (RotSpd), and pitch angles (Pitch) via the "Combined-Case Analysis" options. You can include the rotor aerodynamic torque in the AeroDyn output file by including "RtAeroMxh" in the output list (OutList) in the AeroDyn primary input file. Simply run multiple cases and take the time- (or, preferably, azimuth-) averaged torque to find the RtAeroMxh as a function of WndSpeed, RotSpd, and Pitch (or the like).


Enable me to know somes stuffs:
-If i can fixed RotSpd, Pitch and i varies the WndSpeed and then i calcultates the slop of the torque-wind speed, which is the coefficient where i searched. After i did the same for RotSpd and Pitch. My question is if this stuff is true in which values i fixed the variables (RotSpd,Pitch when we change WndSpeed;WndSpeed,Pitch when we change RotSpd;and WndSpeed, RotSpd when we change Pitch), if at the optimum values or at the initials conditions?
-Or i change arbitrary the triplet to form the 3D surface and then we conclude the slope according to each axis, if the case how many simulations can suffice to find the aerodynamic torque exerted on the Wind turbine
i would appreciate any suggestions from you
Sincerely

Jason.Jonkman
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Re: Learizing Baseline 5MW Wind Turbine with FAST

Postby Jason.Jonkman » Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:17 am

Dear Ali,

I'm not really sure I understand your first question.

You'll have to do you own convergence study to determine how many simulations you need to calculate accurate slopes.

Best regards,
Jason Jonkman, Ph.D.
Senior Engineer | National Wind Technology Center (NWTC)

National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL)
15013 Denver West Parkway | Golden, CO 80401
+1 (303) 384 – 7026 | Fax: +1 (303) 384 – 6901
nwtc.nrel.gov

Ali.Elyaakoubi
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:43 am
Organization: abdelmalek Essaadi University
Location: MOROCCO

Re: Learizing Baseline 5MW Wind Turbine with FAST

Postby Ali.Elyaakoubi » Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:43 am

In order to find the torque according to wind speed and pitch, i find an difficulty in the simulations cases, it require a lot of time to change the three parameters, I asked you if there is means to perform this
And if Can you please explaine me further what is the parameters that affects the convergence study, that you said, for the 5 MW WT model

Sinceerly

Jason.Jonkman
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Re: Learizing Baseline 5MW Wind Turbine with FAST

Postby Jason.Jonkman » Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:47 am

Dear Ali,

I think you need to spend some time and think about the problem yourself. I will not solve the problem for you. Our software and this forum are meant for experts. We don't have the resources to hand-hold you through the process.

By convergence, I mean that you can determine if the slope that you've calculated is sufficiently accurate for your needs such that adding more simulations does not improve the quality of the results (i.e. calculate the slope for each of a different numbers of simulations to determine the number of simulations necessary for the accuracy you need).

Best regards,
Jason Jonkman, Ph.D.
Senior Engineer | National Wind Technology Center (NWTC)

National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL)
15013 Denver West Parkway | Golden, CO 80401
+1 (303) 384 – 7026 | Fax: +1 (303) 384 – 6901
nwtc.nrel.gov

Ali.Elyaakoubi
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:43 am
Organization: abdelmalek Essaadi University
Location: MOROCCO

Re: Learizing Baseline 5MW Wind Turbine with FAST

Postby Ali.Elyaakoubi » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:34 am

Dear Jonson
I means just if you are somes stuffs, its not question of expertise or waste of time for me. But in all cases thank you very much again for your response

Ali.Elyaakoubi
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:43 am
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Re: Learizing Baseline 5MW Wind Turbine with FAST

Postby Ali.Elyaakoubi » Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:04 am

Dear Jonson
I am wondering if
Omegar_opt=lambda_opt*VwindVxi/R is with rad/s i.e it s not worth to multiply it by pi/30 at the input of FAST, and even if this value is represents the reference rotational speed to the Wind Turbine
If possible to generate a smoooth wind profile with Turbsim, a profile without turbulence or with litle intensity

Kind regards

Jason.Jonkman
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Re: Learizing Baseline 5MW Wind Turbine with FAST

Postby Jason.Jonkman » Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:01 am

Dear Ali,

I'm not really sure I understand your first question. However, most rotational speed inputs to FAST are in rpm, not rad/s (see the input files or documentation for requirements on specific inputs). To convert from rad/s to rpm, you must multiply by 30/pi.

It is easy to specify wind input to FAST that is uniform or steady (without turbulence). TurbSim is not needed to input to FAST uniform or steady wind data. In FAST v8, please see the documentation supplied with the InflowWind module for instructions on specifying Steady Wind or Uniform Wind data: https://wind.nrel.gov/nwtc/docs/InflowWind_Manual.pdf. In FAST v7, the "uniform wind" files were called "hub-height" wind files and were entered in the AeroDyn input file instead of an InflowWind input file.

Best regards,
Jason Jonkman, Ph.D.
Senior Engineer | National Wind Technology Center (NWTC)

National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL)
15013 Denver West Parkway | Golden, CO 80401
+1 (303) 384 – 7026 | Fax: +1 (303) 384 – 6901
nwtc.nrel.gov

Ali.Elyaakoubi
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:43 am
Organization: abdelmalek Essaadi University
Location: MOROCCO

Re: Learizing Baseline 5MW Wind Turbine with FAST

Postby Ali.Elyaakoubi » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:00 am

Thank you very much for your quick reply

About question 1 if you can clarify plus
we know that the Tip Speed Ratio is MPPT control strategy to control the system in order to extract a Maximum power.In this technique the refrence rotational speed of the speed controller is given based on the wind speed measurment Omega_ref=wind*TSR/R( I supposed that the wind speed measurment is represented by VwindVxi)
I am wondering if this is true (the wind speed measurment is represented by VwindVxi, and how about the other wind components)
And the value of the rotational speed given by the equation if it is with rpm or rad/s

Sinccerly

Jason.Jonkman
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Re: Learizing Baseline 5MW Wind Turbine with FAST

Postby Jason.Jonkman » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:31 am

Dear Ali,

In the equation TSR = omega*R/V, omega should be in rad/s not rpm.

In FAST v7, WindVxi is the local wind speed at the hub height; in turbulent wind conditions, the actual wind speeds will vary across the rotor disk. While the notion of TSR is less useful in turbulent wind conditions, it would probably be the most accurate to define the wind speed, V, as the wind speed normal to the rotor disk averaged across the disk, which is how we define the equivalent output of AeroDyn v15 in FAST v8 (RtTSR).

Regardless, in an actual wind turbine variable-speed control system, the actual wind speed is not an input to the controller. Instead, a torque-speed curve (torque = K*omega^2) is developed to maximize the power capture below rated wind speed, such that the only measurement that needs to be fed as input to the controller is the generator speed. The gain (K) for the torque-speed curve can be derived from rotor radius, R, and the TSR and Cp at maximum power coefficient.

Best regards,
Jason Jonkman, Ph.D.
Senior Engineer | National Wind Technology Center (NWTC)

National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL)
15013 Denver West Parkway | Golden, CO 80401
+1 (303) 384 – 7026 | Fax: +1 (303) 384 – 6901
nwtc.nrel.gov

Ali.Elyaakoubi
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:43 am
Organization: abdelmalek Essaadi University
Location: MOROCCO

Re: Learizing Baseline 5MW Wind Turbine with FAST

Postby Ali.Elyaakoubi » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:12 am

Thank you for your reply
I agree with you the torque controller that you mentionned is the common used as you reffered in your reference"Definition of a 5-MW Reference
Wind Turbine for Offshore System Development".However I am concerned to implmend a Tip Speed Ratio strategy based on lineraizad model to test its ability about Baseline torque controller that you have did.
In fact in this stuff, the controller need the wind speed measurment or even its approximation and the TSR optimal (which equal=7,55)
As you have mentionned

Code: Select all

In FAST v7, WindVxi is the local wind speed at the hub height; in turbulent wind conditions, the actual wind speeds will vary across the rotor disk. While the notion of TSR is less useful in turbulent wind conditions, it would probably be the most accurate to define the wind speed, V, as the wind speed normal to the rotor disk averaged across the disk, which is how we define the equivalent output of AeroDyn v15 in FAST v8 (RtTSR).

I would like to know which parameters from AeroDyn can represents the approximation of the Wind speed, you have mentionned in your post V but it didnt exist in Outlist of Aerodyn
Can be RtVAvgxh more representatif?

Jason.Jonkman
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Re: Learizing Baseline 5MW Wind Turbine with FAST

Postby Jason.Jonkman » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:50 am

Dear Ali,

Yes, output RtVAvgxh from AeroDyn v15 in FAST v8 is the rotor-disk-averaged relative wind velocity normal to the disk. However, from your earlier comments I thought you were using FAST v7 with AeroDyn v13 instead of FAST v8 with AeroDyn v15. You'll have to upgrade to FAST v8 to be able to output RtVAvgxh from AeroDyn.

Best regards,
Jason Jonkman, Ph.D.
Senior Engineer | National Wind Technology Center (NWTC)

National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL)
15013 Denver West Parkway | Golden, CO 80401
+1 (303) 384 – 7026 | Fax: +1 (303) 384 – 6901
nwtc.nrel.gov

Ali.Elyaakoubi
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:43 am
Organization: abdelmalek Essaadi University
Location: MOROCCO

Re: Learizing Baseline 5MW Wind Turbine with FAST

Postby Ali.Elyaakoubi » Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:35 am

Many thanks to you for your helps
No I am using V15 in FAST
Best regards

Ali

Ali.Elyaakoubi
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:43 am
Organization: abdelmalek Essaadi University
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Re: Learizing Baseline 5MW Wind Turbine with FAST

Postby Ali.Elyaakoubi » Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:40 pm

Tell me please what can be the cause of the problem
I listed RtVAvgxh in the Outlist of Aerodyn
I remplaced in Test18.fst the file...Onsfhore_AeroDyn by the file...Onsfhore_AeroDyn15
And when I run the simulation an error is occured indicates me that the output RtVAvgxh is not known

Sinceerly

Jason.Jonkman
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Re: Learizing Baseline 5MW Wind Turbine with FAST

Postby Jason.Jonkman » Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:47 pm

Dear Ali,

I'm not sure. Please explain your questions more clearly.

Best regards,
Jason Jonkman, Ph.D.
Senior Engineer | National Wind Technology Center (NWTC)

National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL)
15013 Denver West Parkway | Golden, CO 80401
+1 (303) 384 – 7026 | Fax: +1 (303) 384 – 6901
nwtc.nrel.gov

Ali.Elyaakoubi
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:43 am
Organization: abdelmalek Essaadi University
Location: MOROCCO

Re: Learizing Baseline 5MW Wind Turbine with FAST

Postby Ali.Elyaakoubi » Sat Mar 26, 2016 6:21 am

In order to obtain the Rotor-disk-averaged relative wind velocity, as we said after, I listed RtVAvgxh in Output List of AeroDyn15. After that I changed "NRELOffshrBsline5MW_Onshore_AeroDyn.dat" by "NRELOffshrBsline5MW_Onshore_AeroDyn15.dat" in Test18.fst
When I conducted the simulation, an error is occured means that RtVAvgxh is not defined


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